Joining us on the RCKT Communications couch is a special guest: Bundestagsabgeordneter (M.P.) Thomas Jarzombek, one of the premier digital politicians at the Bundestag. His conversation with founder Andreas Winiarski focuses on the role Germany needs to take in an increasingly digital world, to ensure the country is at the forefront when change becomes inevitable. The conversation was in German, but we have a translation below.
Andreas Winiarski: Thomas, you are a digital-political speaker in the CDU/CSU Bundestag faction. Did I say that correctly?
Thomas Jarzombek: Yes.
A.W.: We thank you for joining us. You’re one of the most important politicians in Germany for Digital. How do you view the (digital) scene?
T.J.: When you look back at the last few decades, then one youngest German enterprises SAP, they’re now 43 years old, and everything they’ve built comes out of North America. We have made this a priority in the last 2-3 years to answer this question: why are none of the global Internet leaders from Germany or Europe? That’s why I look at the digital scene that’s developed here in Berlin and in other places, for example Düsseldorf with Trivago, as very positive beacons. And you notice that in the last few years that a lot has occurred in order to prepare us to become global leaders.
A.W.: And how did that happen? You’re of course not the only M.P in the Bundestag, you’re a part of a faction, so how is it, when you speak with colleagues who don’t share your view on the matter, because perhaps they’re fighting for their seat and Trivago doesn’t reside in their constituency, or perhaps because they’re older. So how do you explain to them why this is important.
T.J.: I believe that argument is clear when you frame it as a question: where are the jobs of the future coming from? And there are a variety of studies that say in the next 15-20 years half the jobs will be shaken up because of the digital change. And that means that half of them must go and the other half remain. And how will they otherwise exist, if not through new businesses. There is also a lot in regards to the middle class, because that was always an area for the unions. A lot of companies that are owner-operated, they also fit exactly into what we’ve already discovered.
A.W.: You’ve been in the digital political scene since before the time of Peter Tauber, and you helped create the C-Netz, where I’m also a member. I’m also a member of the CDU, something we must mention as a disclaimer. Nonetheless – tough questions!
T.J.: I have bought stuff from Rocket.
A.W.: And what would you say, what are the biggest successes that you’ve been able to record as a digital politician.
T.J.: That’s of course a wide range of themes. From building up our broadband networks, net neutrality and data protection. And when you look at these areas of startups, I think it’s a win that I hear a lot today that our seed in the implementation stage of someone’s idea, where five years ago that was a financial choke point, and they nevertheless were able to make it. What we’re missing is growth capital, i mean companies that have 200-300 people and in order to reach the next stage [of growth] need 10, 20 or 30 million Euro. And it’s hard to find investors in Germany. For us it’s a big success that we were able to convince the government to provide almost a billion Euro of state support in growth capital. There are funds in the European investment funds, we do something like that with the KfW (Kreditanstalt für Wiederaufbau), there are a lot of different programs. And I believe, that will sustainably bind these companies in Germany, because otherwise they’ll migrate off to America, where the investors are.
A.W.: I’m under the impression that part of the problem is that the big German businesses don’t invest in the digital scene in comparison to their counterparts in America. What do you all do in order to warm [businesses] to the idea, that they need a rethink for the sake of their own businesses.
T.J.: I agree with you there. Everywhere you have contacts and where you meet people and say “do something.” There will definitely be a couple of regulatory themes, if you look at the example of the institutional investing. So for example with insurances and pension funds there’s always the question how much equity capital such an Asset Class has to have. That’s finance talk now, but you have to ask yourself when you’re investing in startups how much equity capital is deposited in the case that something is going wrong? I think there’s a need for action where we can improve the conditions.
A.W.: Going from there, we also need of course to talk quickly about [Chancellor Merkel], she’s often involved in the faction. Is it important for you all that she’s active in the scene or is the world politics more important and there’s no time for digital.
T.J.: Three years ago Peter Tauber and I became friends as young M.Ps when we asked Frau Merkel for a meeting. We received it so we went to her and presented our digital-political topics. Most importantly was that we need to do more for business founders, we need to connect them better. And she said yes right away and then we made a joint event. Claas Hinrichs was also there, along with a row of other people who the Chancellor knew. That was the start and since then there have been other events where the Chancellor was present, along with other founders, such as Oliver Samwer, who was on the main panel for the last #cnight together with Angela Merkel. And I think that’s a good tradition that we’ve had for the last two, three years. And she knows as well, that the future of the German economy is with the creation of new businesses.
A.W.: Next to the Chancellor we also have Günther Oettinger, a second German who is a central player in the digital scene. How is it now with him in his role as the EU-Commissioner for Digital? How should I imagine the teamwork between Berlin and Brussels.
T.J.: You sometimes have the impression that Günther Oettinger is in Berlin more than in Brussels, because he has so many appointments here. Last week he was present at our faction’s congress and spoke about broadband. What I really like about him is that he interprets digital politicians as business politics. And Angela Merkel also told us in the faction that Germany, as the leading industrial country in Europe, urgently needs a Digital commissioner for the Industry 4.0 upheaval.
A.W.: You already spoke about the CDU’s #cnight, where last year of course Oliver Samwer was a guest. Und that was for me where Rocket Internet discovered its politics. Would you agree or is that a bit exaggerated?
T.J.: No, I believe that’s exaggerating it a bit and Oliver Samwer is definitely a polarising figure but also one that is very successful. I meet a lot of people who are coming to Berlin, because they want to get to know him and they’re inspired by him and they want to position themselves to where they can create their own Internet companies. And I like that. I think we Germans don’t always have to look at things from the negative aspects or seeing the glass half-full respectively. Und I think there is someone who is decisive about the startup business and wants to bring it along and I only wish that the youth would let themselves get hooked to this idea. I just spoke with Frank Thelen, he was in school and a 17-year-old wrote to him and said, “your presentation was the most game-changing event in my life.” And now he wants to go into business for himself. And I think that’s an important focus for us in politics, that we bring more creators into the schools, excite teenagers and at least encourage them to the possibilities, because at the end that’s how we’ll be successful, if more and more [of them] create their own companies. That needs to be our goal.
A.W.: Last question, and let’s look forward. In two years there’s going to be elections. Do you think that digital will play a central role or do you think it’s going to be more about minimum wage, retirement and climate?
T.J.: Yeah, we’ve noticed that digital politics has grown a lot in importance of the last few years. I myself created an IT company 20 years ago and I’ve presented this topic to city council and local parliaments, and they just laughed. And in the last few years it’s gained some momentum, because a lot of people recognize that it’s a business-political topic. They also know that the future of the German economy is dependent on the fact that we can successfully navigate the digital transformation and therefore I believe that it’s going to take on a lot of importance in the next two years.
A.W.: And do you think we’ll have our first Internet minister, who might also be named Thomas Jarzombek?
T.J.: I’m excited about anyone who is considered qualified [for that role], but honestly there are others [who could take that job]. But I think it would make for reasonable Internet politics to consolidate everything into one role. Because we now have three ministers that coordinate the digital agenda. That’s Alexander Dobrindt, Sigmar Gabriel and Thomas de Maizière. And I think, we could be more effective, if there would be one, who could be called Mr./Ms. Internet in the government and I could imagine that in 2 ½ years that’s exactly how the Bundestag elections will be setup.
A.W.: We really appreciate your visit.
T.J.: Thank you.